5 beyond后面可以跟形容词吗(beyond frustrated)-续

请问下列文段中的 I am beyond being frustrated 如何理解,重点是看看 beyond being frustrated 如何理解:

“This way.” She guides me by the elbow. She says nothing about Simon. She is strangely solemn, unusually taciturn. And fearing that she might have bad news to tell me, I feel my chest tighten. “Did you see — ” She cuts me off by shaking her head. I’m relieved, then disappointed. I no longer know how I should feel from moment to moment. We’re edging our way past the strange statues. “Where d you get that box?” “Found it.” I am beyond being frustrated. “Really!” I snap. “I thought you bought it at Macy’s.” “This my box I hide long time ago. Already tell you this. This box always want show you.”

 

我简单说一下提问的原因:对于 beyond+adj 的理解,我与Alex119老师理解不一样:

我个人的理解beyond+adj = beyond +being adj(加不加being意思是一样的)

Alex119认为beyond+adj 表示肯定意义,添加being后表示否定意义。

 

更多材料,请参考:

https://www.cpsenglish.com/question/60822

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8 个回答

alex119   - 工程师
擅长:英语

很久都没正式发帖了,难得!该说的在那个帖子中都已说了,如果网友想研究这个问题最好能耐心从原贴开始看起,搞清观点是什么。我就再啰嗦啰嗦:

就是两种结构

1. beyond being frustrated

2. beyond frustrated

两句的意思不一样,第一句的beyond是介词词性,有某种否定的意义在里头,这是beyond这个词作为介词的本义,大概意思为没那么沮丧,不再沮丧,原贴中有很多的例子,可以自行琢磨。第二句的beyond是副词词性,可惜没有一本词典中介绍这个“beyond直接加形容词的新用法,但是在报章杂志中很常见,曹老师说这个词的意思是veryextremely,我认同这个理解,因为大量的例句分析显示确实是这意思,我还可以加个词absolutely来解释beyond的意思,汉语意思为极度地,一点否定的意思都没有,相反肯定的程度很深。凡哥英语提供的那个截图也是显示在语料库中有此用法,词典中没有。那第一句译为超出沮丧的范围之外是否可以理解为不在沮丧的范围之内,有网友可能会说,那不一定,可能程度更深呢!那请问程度更深的沮丧是指什么,如果还是指沮丧,那就没有超出,跟之前的超出沮丧的范围之外矛盾,有人可能说你这是诡辩,有可能是不仅仅是沮丧,还有别的什么,那行,那我们再看第2句,第二句的意思前面说了,beyond frustrated的意思就是extremely frustrated极度沮丧,请问极度沮丧是指什么意思,这是沮丧还是不是沮丧,是否超出沮丧的范围边界?还是说就在边界上了,差一点就超出了?

这样分析这两句还意思一样吗?在英语里面副词修饰形容词不管是弱化形容词还是强化形容词都不可能超出只单独用该形容词的边界这句话是来自几十年前EradesA.S Hornby提出的一个问题的解答,有兴趣可以找来看看。用讲究意合的汉语来解释注重形式的英语确实很困扰,还是举词典beyond的经典用法来说明一下,beyond repair本义是超出修理范围之外,那是什么意思,就是没法修理了呗,有否定的意义吧。我想说的是“beyond being frustrated”就跟这个例子是一样的理解,典型的介词用法。至于说会不会只是搭配的问题,我可以肯定的说:不是,如果是,那这英语也就太玄乎了。“beyond直接加形容词的用法就是极度如何如何,彻底加强肯定。而“beyondbeing再加形容词有否定的意义在里头,是有些许排除的,不是说话人要看重的点。两种用法意思不一样。附一个陈用仪的英语常用词疑难用法手册的一页,在not词条下:

attachments-2022-12-LwmYZbwq63ad26ad36547.png

一句话总结:句1是超出边界很多,句2是在边界上,边缘上,但是没有出界,我想这就是两者的区别!

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荒野   - 自由职业者

Alex119老师交流过两次,他的钻研和敏锐给我印象极深,敏锐而又锲而不舍,看问题多有他个人的心得,钦佩!

胡老师这个问题书上没有现成的解说,但就我看到的几个例子,结合我自己的揣测,我更倾向于Alex老师的看法,我也引用几个例子来具体说明:

1.第一个场景例子

Bank teller Cassie Massey has come to the conclusion that the customer who is currently at her window—Floyd Boyd—may very well be the least intelligent person she has ever met. For the past 25 minutes, Cassie has been trying to explain to Mr. Boyd exactly why he was charged an overdraft fee. Cassie has rephrased her explanation numerous times and has even employed visual aids in the form of pencil-and-paper calculations. Mr. Boyd appears to be just as perplexed as he was when he approached Cassie's window, and he is beginning to get frustrated. At this point, Cassie is beyond being frustrated. She wants to shout, "I can't make it any simpler. It's your job to keep a running total and update it every time you write a check or withdraw cash at an ATM. If you don't do that, you end up trying to spend money you don't have. Then, it's our job to charge you a fee for being careless and stupid!" However, Cassie continues to explain in her "patient" voice, knowing she could damage the bank's reputation and lose her job if she were to say what she really thinks.

这里想表达的应该是,Cassie 这一刻已经不再是失望了,而是绝望的发泄,是超出了失望懊丧这种情绪状态之外更甚的东西。

 

2. Deidara struggled with his locker door, the lock on it “accidentally” was damaged, and it was a bite trying to open it now. He repeatedly jiggled the handle, but it seemed to be stuck.             He was beyond being frustrated now, he was ready to explode. Sadly, Deidara couldn’t even if he tried, his clay was stashed inside the swirling vortex of chaos, AKA, his stubborn locker.

同样,这里表达的是,他现在不再是失望了,而是(超出这种情绪)后的随时爆炸了。

 

3. I read the Hill with an awareness that they tend to have a right leaning perspective, so I recognize that this woman’s representation that “Nunes gave a sort of general apology” may have had stronger statements attached. I’m beyond being frustrated by the reactions and statements to this Nunes breach of ethics. Same for having Sessions caught red handed having perjured himself under oath. It doesn’t matter how insignificant the perjury was, it’s perjury and it demands a resignation. 我对努涅斯违反道德准则的反应和声明不仅仅感到沮丧了。代之的是另外一种情感状态了,不管做伪证多么微不足道,这就是伪证,这就要求他辞职。不再失望,而是进一步要求辞职的情绪了。

 

4. I am beyond being frustrated and I do not know what else to try to resolve this.

这是Windows系统出现问题,某人怎么都无法解决后,写出的句子。情况应该是,他试啊试啊,用尽了他的各种办法也无济于事,于是他已经不再是失望了,他是绝望了,不再试图自己解决问题,因此也就无所谓失望了,所以求助。

 

5. The service is pathetic, I also bought a 4G sim card from them, it requires a PUK number. I am stuck with no help and behind with my work because of this. It has been over 3 weeks now and I have sent many messages to their customer support but till today, no help. I am beyond being frustrated now....  

6. Migrants' advocate 'beyond frustrated' with Ontario's $10M for farm safety   

安大略为农场安全投入1000万加元,移民倡导者极其失望(这是标题)

“It’s beyond being frustrated ,” Ramsaroop said. “The most vulnerable continue to suffer.” 标题表示的是移民拥护者对政策措施的极大失落感,而收尾句用beyond being frustrated,似要表示对这些易受伤害的人们还在继续遭受苦难一事,这不应是仅仅让人感到失望的事了,而应该做些什么。

7. Beyond being frustrated, it’s just disheartening. 这里好像说是程度的加深,也可以看作性质的改变。

 

这些是从上下文揣摩出来的意思差别,从形式本身,我个人认为,也可以分辨端倪。being frustrated 表示一种进行中的一种情绪状态,含有行为状态的意味较浓,而仅仅用形容词则趋向于行为性质本身,所以Beyond frustrated 表示程度的加强,极其,非常的意思,而 Beyond being frustrated则是超越了这一状态,在行为或情绪性质上有改变。这种改变从某种角度看也算是一种表面的否定吧。

个人观点,仅供参考!

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好题  
擅长:英语

看了几位网友的分析,我分享一下我的理解供参考。如有不准确,也请大家指出,我们共同探讨。

其实我在好题分享(92)中曾出过类似用法的一道题。(参见https://www.cpsenglish.com/question/59225

我理解beyond + adj, 可以看作是一种非正式文体中的习惯用法。至于形容词前有being便是否定的含义,这也许是受翻译或语境的影响。但仅看这个句式本身,我觉得没有这层意思。某国外英语问答网,母语的人认为beyond+ adj 等同于形容词前省略being. 因此有没有being意思是一样的。如果意思不同,那是因为不同搭配或上下文造成的。请看原文:https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/516227/adjective-after-the-preposition-beyond

attachments-2022-12-O3KUwAvT63acd898c92d2.pngattachments-2022-12-Nv7Bkoo463acd8dab9366.png

beyond在有些搭配中,本身有否定含义,如:beyond doubt/beyond doubtful beyond unprofessional.英语的意思是很不专业,连unprofessional都够不上的意思。这里beyond的意思是more than ... 不能把beyond unprofessional理解为否定含义的professional.

网友句子的 I am beyond being frustrated. 可以理解为:我不仅仅是心情沮丧。(言外之意,还有别的忧虑,表示说话人复杂的心情)。我觉得这种表达,并不是否定的意思,而是指程度更高了。请看外刊的这句,还有其后的I'm so much more than that...

attachments-2022-12-VpUCMhoB63ace0a7a3389.png

荒野网友把 He was beyond being frustrated now 理解为:他现在不再是失望了,而是(超出这种情绪)后的随时爆炸了。我觉得这属于翻译或汉语表达习惯问题,我会翻译为:他岂止是沮丧,都要随时爆炸了。

个人理解,仅供参考。

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蒋红秀   - 英语教师
擅长:词法问题,句法问题,英语考试

我提供一个依据,供各位参考:

attachments-2022-12-SHdxdkUL63ad647f99095.png

attachments-2022-12-5bzDN3PZ63ad645176013.png

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倪肖丁  
擅长:惯用法问题

关于beyond frustratedbeyond being frustrated的我见

 

1. 类似beyond frustrated这种用法多出现在日常非正式文体中,在英美媒体上比较常见。例如:

I don’t mean to laugh at your situation because it sucks and I would be beyond frustrated, but I can’t help but find it a little funny that this is all over poop. (Mirror)

(William Wellema has been living under a bridge for four days, waiting to get to Fort MyersBeach on Florida's EsteroIsland to see if his vacation home survived Hurricane Ian). On Friday, he was beyond frustrated as he continued to await permission to drive across. (YAHOO News)

Freeh, says an agent, is "beyond angry on this one." (Time)

They try to desecrate her as much as they could and we as a community are beyond fed up, we are beyond angry and we are tired of being attacked, " he added. " We are tired of seeing this hatred and we are not going to stand for it anymore. " (New York Post)

在上述用例中,beyond都有more thanextremelyvery very的意思,用于加强其后形容词的肯定意义。

 

2. 我认为beyond frustratedbeyond being frustrated并不完全相同。

一方面,我同意Alex 119的意见:beyond being接形容词,有否定的意思在里头。而且,这种否定意思有两个不同的层次。

首先,这种否定可以是低层次的,即不彻底的。例如:

However, beyond being incorrect, it is ignorant in 2019 to put forward the idea that sexuality is a choice. The Daily Edge

其中的beyond being incorrect具有一定程度的否定意义,也就是说,原句相当于It is NOT incorrect BUT ignorant in 2019 to put forward the idea that sexuality is a choice.

显然这种否定并不是颠覆性的否定。也就是说beyond being incorrect不能理解为肯定了其反面,变成了being correct。这种否定基本上仅具有用词表达不当程度不够还有其它之意涵。Alex 119在评论中用了是有些许排除的,不是说话人要看重的点。我觉得这样的描述是比较严谨的、准确的。

其次,有时候beyond being+形容词本身就是高层次否定,也就是完全否定的意义。例如:

Luckily our people are alert and beyond being hoodwinked. (STAR 26 July 2020) (幸好,我们的人民高度警惕,没有上当)。

此句中的beyond being hoodwinked就是完全否定,相当于not hoodwinked (at all)的意思。如果把这里的beyond理解为用词程度不够这类低层次否定,将其译为不仅仅是上当,显然逻辑不通;假如把beyond理解为强化肯定语气的extremely/completely,译为完全上当,彻底被骗,则更加荒唐。

但是另一方面,我也不认为“eyond being+形容词始终只有上述否定的意思。有时候,“beyond being +形容词等同于“beyond+形容词。例如:

That was an even bigger surprise, I thought I was beyond being surprised and I still didn't think that would happen.Bury times2017-05-14

根据上下文语境可知,句中的I was beyond being surprisedI was beyond surprisedI was extremely surprised基本同义,表示超级惊讶

另外,beyond being...还有一种肯定意义是与否定结构搭配使用。例如:As for the three kids, none of them have any distinguishable characteristics beyond being hopelessly annoying. (IGN) 此句中的beyond也表示肯定,但并无强化肯定语气(extremely)的功能,仅相当于besides/except

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曹荣禄  
擅长:动词用法,句法问题

各位老师给出了很多例句。我个人的感觉是,作者在beyond后面直接接形容词时,实际上作者是把beyond用作一个程度副词,而不再是用作介词,所以从上下文语境可以看出beyond是修饰语,形容词是中心词,类似于extremely+形容词。而beyond being+形容词,显然作者还是把beyond用作一个介词。其语义在不同的上下文中可能有所不同。在Alex老师的下面句子中:In spite of my thick sweater, slacks and anorak, I was cold all through me. Not with the chill of fear, though. I was beyond being afraid. Now that I had let myself in for this crazy venture, my one desire was to get it over quickly. 这里beyond being afraid显然不是非常害怕的意思,而是不再害怕了。这里是不能用beyond afraid的。而在 I was beyond being afraid. I couldn't move. 这个句子中,我们可以理解beyond being afraid是非常害怕的意思,意思类似于beyond afraid。所以我认为我们不宜在beyond+形容词和beyond being+形容词之间划等号。beyond+形容词已经演变成一种习语性用法,beyond被当做程度副词使用了,beyond的语义相对固定,相当于extremelyvery, more than 。而beyond being+形容词中的beyond无疑是介词,其语义需要根据上下文做出判断。个人体会,未必正确,仅供参考。

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黄鸣  

我比较认可好题老师的分析。

我也觉得“beyond+形容词”与“beyond+being+形容词”意思应该是一样的,在强调程度时,应该是指一种程度的极限(但不要按照“物极必反”的理论将“程度的极限”理解为否定)。我觉得“beyond+形容词”与“beyond+being+形容词”均表示“非常”“极其”之类的意思。

He is beyond (being) frustrated.

可理解为:他非常/极其沮丧。

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huck finn   - 语言学爱好者
擅长:语言学

谢邀。尝试做一点不成熟的分析,仅供参考(感觉和倪老师的看法基本一致)

1. beyond + adj,这个用法的确存在,参见Cambridge Dictionary

beyond excited, serious, angry, etc. 

informal

extremely(非常) excited, serious, angry, etc.:

这时与beyond+n的用法有些相反。

2. beyond + being adj,似乎有两种有些相反的意思,1beyond + being simply adj(不只是;非常),与beyond + adj接近些,但有时不完全一样;2)类似beyond + n(不是/不再是)——这个用法更常见一些。

例如:... and he was beyond being angry…he was furious and he struck out at his brother, verbally.

beyond + being adj具体什么意思需要结合语境来分析,但不同人对上下文的语义逻辑可能又有不同的理解。

3. 找了下中文版,试图多发现些线索。

中文版:我一点都摸不着头脑,真的,我抑制不住自己了,我还以为是你在美国的商店里买的呢。

鉴于原文中snap带有一定的负面情绪,与frustrated有所关联,这里暂时倾向于将beyond being frustrated理解为非常沮丧

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  • 胡德忠   提出于 2022-12-28 15:31