5 have sth done的理解(过去分词能表主动意义吗)

1. 网站上曲老师写了一个句子:

I had the audience clapped.

曲老师认为本句的意思是:我让观众给我鼓掌(直译);观众是我的托(意译)。

参见:https://www.cpsenglish.com/question/59287

按照曲老师的分析:上面句子中的过去分词 clapped 是表示主动关系(主动意义),即“观众鼓掌”。

2. 有老师提出了不同的看法:

I had the audience clapped.

胡老师认为本句的意思是:我让人们为观众鼓掌(类似于:I made people clap the audience.)。——这个理解虽然奇怪,但如果原文这样写,我觉得只能这样理解!

还有“在读博士”也认为,对于 I had the audience clapped 这个句子,如果把它视为正确合理的句子,那么 the audience clapped 之间就应该具有被动关系,所以这个句子可理解为:我让观众被鼓掌。= 我让大家为观众鼓掌(比如在整个听演讲过程中观众的表现很棒、配合很好……)。如果有哪位网友认为“have sth / sb done结构”中have后面的宾语与其后的过去分词可以不具有被动关系,可举出反例来,让大家一起学习。

参见:https://www.cpsenglish.com/question/59344

3. 我的疑问:

疑问1have sth done中的过去分词到底能不能表示主动意义?如果能,有依据吗?

疑问2I had the audience clapped 这个句子到底对不对?如果对,它到底是表示“我让观众给我鼓掌”还是“我让大家为观众鼓掌”?

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最佳答案 2022-12-23 11:39

疑问1have sth done中的过去分词到底能不能表示主动意义?如果能,有依据吗?

解答: have sth done 的意思直译就是“让某物被完成”,所以这个done 通常应该是及物动词的过去分词,除非后面有介词,looked after。如果表示主动含义,一般要用have sb do ....(动词原形)或get sb to do ... 这里的have make 意思差不多。当然有时sb 也可以改用sth. 如:have the machine work for you. 如果done是不及物动词的过去分词,实际上它已经形容词化了,应该看作形容词。如外刊例句:

attachments-2022-08-85n7tSQU630959ce0e1bb.png

attachments-2022-08-XQZnGyEC630959e9357fb.png

疑问2I had the audience clapped 这个句子到底对不对?如果对,它到底是表示“我让观众给我鼓掌”还是“我让大家为观众鼓掌”?

解答:根据上面的分析,I had the audience clapped 直译为:我让这些观众被(别人)鼓掌了。也就是你提到的:让大家为观众鼓掌。但是这样的句子在实践中是罕见的,因为一般没有给观众鼓掌的场合,这个掌由谁来鼓呢?让演员给观众鼓掌?通常观众给演员鼓掌才合乎情理。只有在特殊的情况下,比如活动组织者安排有人特意给观众鼓掌才有可能,所以你到语料库很难找到这样的句,但此句符合语法。不算错。

如果是“我让观众给我鼓掌”,那要用have sb do sth的句式。I have the audience clap (for) me. (for 可有可无)

个人理解,仅供参考,欢迎讨论。

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其它 3 个回答

陈才   - 英语教师
擅长:中考英语,词法问题

have +名词(sth)+done

解答:以上结构“不管自己自己做”还是“请别人做”有一点是毋庸置疑的(也不接受任何反驳),是肯定的,就是中间的名词“必须是(后面过去分词)动作的承受者”即中间名词与后面过去分词构成“被动逻辑主谓关系”相当于“sth be done

Tom had his hair cut yesterday!汤姆昨天理发了!备注:相当于“ His hair was cut yesterday

We have our car repaired yesterday.我们车昨天维修了。备注:相当于“ Our car was repaired yesterday

I had your rooms cleaned and aired.我昨天请人打扫你的房间并通了风。备注:相当于“ your rooms were cleaned and aired yesterday

They had him killed last year.他们去年派人干掉了他。备注:相当于“ He was killed last year

Mary had her eyes closed.玛丽双目紧闭。备注:相当于“ Her eyes were closed

She had her bag stolen.她的包被偷了。备注:相当于“ Her bag was stolen

了解以上情况后再看一下句子

I had the audience clapped.备注:相当于“ The audience were clapped

单词“clap”当作及物动词“clap sb=给某人鼓掌”或者“clap ones hands=拍某人手掌”

The audience clapped the violinist heartily.观众热烈地向提琴手鼓掌。

She clapped her hands in delight.她高兴地拍起手来。

He clapped his hands for silence.他拍手要大家安静下来。

再回到以上句子

I had the audience clapped.意思“我请人给观众鼓掌”这个严重违反逻辑思维错误,正常思维,是观众给演员鼓掌,没有演员给观众鼓掌说法。

备注:相当于“ The audience were clapped=有人给观众鼓掌”

The audience clapped the violinist heartily.观众热烈地向提琴手鼓掌。

The violinist was heartily clapped by the audience 观众热烈地向提琴手鼓掌。

最后得出总结

1The audience were clapped.【虽然语法正确,但是逻辑错误】

2I had the audience clapped.【虽然语法正确,但是逻辑错误】

1The actor was clapped.【语法正确,逻辑正确】

2I had the actor clapped.【语法正确,逻辑正确】

1The audience clapped the violinist heartily.【语法正确,逻辑正确】

观众热烈地向提琴手鼓掌。

2The violinist was heartily clapped by the audience. 【语法正确,逻辑正确】

观众热烈地向提琴手鼓掌。

总结:任何一个英语句子必须满足以下两点,如果不满足以下2点都被视为错误英语句子。

1】必须100%语法正确【语法规则下,能不能这样做】

2】必须100%逻辑正确【思维逻辑下,这样做是否说得通/是否合理】

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凡哥英语   - 海归英语教师
擅长:英语

本帖只提供关于语句"had the audience clapped"的搜索结果截图,以及反证例句的搜索结果截图做对比。

had the audience clapped在google的books中搜索结果:

attachments-2022-08-m0GnxBfA630a2cdd89718.png


在google news中的搜索结果

attachments-2022-08-r9dqLXHw630a2d1020c19.png

在google综合中的搜索结果:

attachments-2022-08-ReCbLWAk630a2d336c16e.png


作为对比,我们再搜索下楼上陈老师提供的例句:

attachments-2022-08-dWPWwIg2630a2d7500fa6.pngattachments-2022-08-KU8cW6lQ630a2db6666b5.png

结论:似乎只要某人某物某事某句真正存在于世,在海量的google信息中,总会找到其踪迹,否则......

本帖只单纯提供正反例证,不涉及其它!

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Jianfeng Li

1, have sth done(by somebody) --sth is the object of the verb performed by somebody.

2, Oxford dictionary 有例句:Everyone clapped us when we went up to get our our prize. “我让人们为观众鼓掌(类似于:I made people clap the audience.)”一样用法。

所以have the audience clapped 只是把 audience当作 clapobject

3, had somebody done sth --if someone had done sth.

Longman dictionary举例: Had we known about it earlier, we could have warned people of the danger.

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  • 黄力松   提出于 2022-08-26 21:32

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